The natural miracle that improves health, energy & sleep with magnesium expert Dr Carolyn Dean #4
Zestology Guest: Carolyn Dean
Why is magnesium supplementation so important? It can help with anxiety and depression, sleep, energy levels, stomach problems, nerve problems and heart issues. And apparently almost all of us are deficient in it. So why aren't we all supplementing with magnesium? Well if you've had problems like the ones mentioned, you might want to listen in. Today's Zestology expert is Dr. Carolyn Dean, one of the world's foremost experts on magnesium supplementation. She'll explain how magnesium can help with all of the above, and most importantly, what supplements to take and what not to take. (Clue: if you go to the store and buy basic magnesium tablets, they may well have an unwanted laxative effect. You need the right kind.)
If you've had some of the problems listed above, you might want to listen in.
UPDATED: This blog has been updated with some recommended Magnesium supplement links below under the 'For more information' section.
Remember you can listen to this podcast right now on iTunes, or click below to stream this podcast now.
What you'll hear:
Living with more energy
- If magnesium is so good for us, why don’t we ever hear about it from our doctors?
- Why your daily routine should include magnesium instead of 5 cups of coffee.
- “The ultimate chill pill”
- How much magnesium is too much magnesium?
- What do you and LeBron James have in common?
Easy, every-day tips for vitality
- Signs of a magnesium deficiency
- How to balance magnesium with your prescribed medication
- How much water you should ACTUALLY be drinking
- Ingesting magnesium naturally through your diet
- Combating anxiety and depression with magnesium
- Getting the most out of magnesium and life
The Magnesium Miracle by Dr. Carolyn Dean
“LeBron James has Magnesium Deficiency” by Dr. Carolyn Dean
For more information
- Dr. Carolyn Dean's Website
- ReMag Magnesium
- Better You Magnesium Flakes (foot baths)
- Better You Magnesium oil spray
Tony Wrighton: Well today’s guest has authored or co-authored over 30 books. One of them “The Magnesium Miracle”, which I absolutely loved. She’s medical director for the nutritional magnesium association and she lives in Hawaii, which right now, sounds rather blissful - Dr. Carolyn Dean. Hello! Thank you for joining me.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Oh thank you Tony, great to be here. All the way over in the UK. We’re half way around the world from each other.
Tony Wrighton: I’m guessing it’s a lot warmer there than it is here right now.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Oh I know. I hate to brag but yes it is paradise.
Tony Wrighton: Ahh… Okay. Well, let us talk magnesium. Because I have personally discovered so much about magnesium in the last 6 months or so and it’s made a huge difference to my life. Perhaps I could start by asking you, a kind of overview of your work with magnesium and how you think magnesium is so important.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Yes. It’s interesting because I had a story that it wasn’t until the late 90s that Brandon[?] has asked me to write a book on magnesium. I felt that was when I really start to get involved in it but I just got an email from a former patient in Toronto and she said in the early 80s, I put her on to magnesium. So, I’ve been talking about it since I my practice started in 1979. I did not learn about it in medical school, I learned it after medical school when I took naturopathic training. It’s a mineral that’s necessary as it stands now far between 1600 and 1800 enomatic biochemical processes in the body and it’s the most important mineral in the body.
Tony Wrighton: And, I mean, I know in your book you say, when you’re in medical school. You spend all your time really studying drugs and not nutritional deficiencies. But in the book, you talked about how it can help with so many different things. It can help with anxiety and depression, and stomach problems, and nerve problems, and heart issues, and just so much.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: I know Tony. Anything to do with muscles and nerves. So, just figure that out. I mean, from head to foot we have muscles and nerves. So, anything that creates magnesium deficiency can cause symptoms. When doctors, see a patient who’s fatigued or rundown. They don’t think of magnesium and necessary energy stuff. They think of anxiety and depression and give those drugs. It’s really quite a shame, I mean, I was going to say criminal but maybe criminal in all that. Doctors don’t understand biochemistry enough to recommend these nutrients and it is because we did not learn them clinically. Everything that we learned in medicine was to try and diagnose symptoms into a disease category and match them up with a drug. So medicine is really left wanting to try to keep people well and prevent them from getting disease.
Tony Wrighton: Well you mention about fatigue. Let’s kind of start with energy then. You talked about fatigue a lot in the magnesium miracle and how a deficiency in magnesium can cause fatigue. And how you can really sort that out really quite quickly if you start supplementing with magnesium. So tell us more.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Yes, as I said, 6 out of the 8 steps to create the energy molecules require magnesium. And fatigue can be from a lack of those molecules, from a lack of magnesium to create those molecules. But it can also come from the muscles being so tense. Which means when you try to sleep, if you try to sleep with tension on your muscles, you never achieve a deep enough sleep. Most people with magnesium deficiency don’t even dream because they can’t reach that deep dream state. So when you wake up in the morning and you’re tired because you haven’t had enough rest. Then, your body starts to feel rundown. That’s a magnesium deficiency. Once you start taking magnesium in whatever form, your body starts being able to relax and sleep at night. And then during the day, you’ll get more energy. An occasional person will say, when I take magnesium at night, it keeps me awake. Well, that can be in the beginning of taking magnesium. As though, 600 to 800 enzyme systems get fired up and they start turning over and kind of revving the body up when you’re now, you’re giving it, you know, super octane fuel.
Tony Wrighton: The reason I came to magnesium was because about a year ago, I contracted a virus. And the doctors, weren’t really sure what it was. They said it might have been was glandular fever or some kind of tropical virus because I was in the jungle at the time when I got ill. And I ended up being off work for 3 months. And one of the things that was really bothering me was kind of neurologic symptoms… kind of had numb patches on my face. And, after a few months I went to see a nutritionist who recommended lots of different things and the one thing that I didn’t really pay much attention about when she recommended it was magnesium. I thought what? Magnesium foot bath, that’s not going to make any difference. I’ll stick to the slightly more fancy sounding pills. And about two weeks later, I came to the magnesium bit and tried the foot bath. And for the first time in 4 months, that night I didn’t think about the neurologic symptoms on my face. It had a profound and very quick impact on me.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Hmm-hmm… wow! Yeah. Yeah I hear that all the time. When a relatively healthy person whose gotten depleted as you did from a virus. They can build up their stores or treat the deficiency very quickly. But then, it really plugs you in to what exactly magnesium does. Because then, you probably found that it helped other things in your body as well.
Tony Wrighton: Well I did. And, since then I’ve been supplementing with magnesium a lot. And the main thing I’ve just noticed is, it really does help me to relax.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Hmm-hmm…
Tony Wrighton: It’s astonishing though, isn’t it?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: I know. It is the ultimate chill pill. Actually, that reminds me of the title of a psychology today article was, I think it was, ‘Magnesium the ultimate chill pill.’ And even psychology today understands about magnesium. It is getting a lot more attention as more people take it and write about it. It’s a whole word of mouth too, Tony, because doctors really don’t prescribe it. Two weekends ago, I was at a think tank on the mainland which a dozen international researchers of magnesium, all the experts in the field. And they’re still back using magnesium oxide. And we’ll get to the different types of magnesium…
Tony Wrighton: Yeah.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: …but, it’s amazing how clinical application does not cross that barrier between research and the doctor’s opinions.
Tony Wrighton: Let’s look at a couple of other… areas that you do within the book. You talked about how magnesium can help with anxiety and depression. I wonder if you could like, maybe you know, tell us a bit more about that and maybe give us a couple examples.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Well, anxiety seems to be triggered in a lot of people by the adrenal glands, getting kind of trigger happy throwing that adrenaline that can happen when you’ve had a fright or when you’re blood sugar is low. Some people, their blood sugar go low, they haven’t eaten in a while, and the adrenaline won’t come out and pump up their blood sugar but also pump up their heart rate. And if a person is in a situation like crossing a bridge or you know, panicking about something else, that would exaggerate the symptoms and they won’t have a clue where it’s coming from. Well, the adrenal glands require a lot of magnesium. They also require sodium. So if you don’t have magnesium, the adrenal glands tend to get trigger happy. And now, just sort of surge out these people who you say booted them, now jump – that’s magnesium deficiency. A doctor not knowing that, first comes and talks about anxiety or panic attacks. They’re immediately put on anti-anxiety medication. And when you look at the packaging of those type of drugs, they will tell you – for short term use only. And I see people on these drugs, especially the benzodiazepines, for years. And then, it does take them sometimes 1 or 2 years to be off them. Magnesium is very helpful for waning people off these medications. The conditions that I talk about at the first at the book – anxiety, panic attacks, asthma, some types of bladder spasms, depression, diabetes, fatigue, heart disease, hypertension, hyperglycaemia, insomnia, kidney stones, migraine, any type of musculoskeletal conditions including, fibromyalgia, nerve problems, pre-menstrual syndrome, and all kinds of symptoms of infertility, osteoporosis, sudden infant death syndrome, and toxins. All of them are caused by magnesium deficiency and can be treated by magnesium deficiency to a certain extent. So, you’ve got so many conditions there that people are given drugs for. In the younger population, it tends to be anxiety that drives this symptoms and the older population, it’s the heart disease. As soon as a person over 60 or even over 50 has symptoms of heart disease, then it can be hypertension. It can be angina. It can be a blood clot or atrial fibrillation. Any of these symptoms, the doctors tend to put them on half a dozen drugs immediately.
Tony Wrighton: Statins?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: The scenario is such that you go in under a massive stress. You know, someone’s died, you know you’re taking care of your elderly mother or father. Your blood pressure is up. It’s stress – its magnesium deficiency. The doctor will put you on a diuretic. Diuretic drugs will drain your magnesium. A month later, your blood pressure’s worse. And the doctor will make a ridiculous comment that, ‘Oh we caught your blood pressure just in time.’ Where, you know, the increase elevation of your blood pressure is because you’re being drained of more and more magnesium with the diuretic. So you end up on 2 more blood pressure pills. One is usually a calcium channel blocker – now, they got that right but magnesium is a natural calcium channel blocker. 2 months later, when you get your blood test to check and make sure your liver isn’t suffering too much with all these drugs. Well, all of a sudden your cholesterol is elevated and your blood sugar is elevated. The drug, the enzyme in the body that mimics the drug statin, the statin – cholesterol lowering drug, the enzyme that either elevates cholesterol or reduces cholesterol according to what the body wants. That enzyme is directed by magnesium. So, magnesium is actually a natural statin. Same with the blood sugar. Even in our medical texts that says there, you know, the list of signs for magnesium, is magnesium deficiency. But doctors, don’t test for them, like I said, cause your magnesium always look so good.
Tony Wrighton: Well I know in the book, you called magnesium – nature’s statin.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Hmm-hmm…
Tony Wrighton: But, people listening here who are on statins, who are worried about cholesterol. Will find that, such a kind of, hardly per fate to take, when they’ve been told by their doctor. And let’s face it, we trust our doctors more than virtually any other professional in the world out there, don’t we? And when the doctor says we need statins. It’s hard to say, ‘well actually, I’m going to try taking magnesium instead.’
Dr. Carolyn Dean: I know. You wouldn’t want to just stop your statin and take magnesium the next day. What I tell my clients to do, I have a telephone practice. I just tell them, stay on their medications. Start magnesium. Get your c-salt and your water. Get a multiple mineral. And then as you get better and your blood pressure improves then, your doctor will naturally want to wean you off the medications. But, yeah, it is difficult Tony, because you see most doctors they see the trend that – ‘Oh I keep giving these drugs, and they keep getting worse, but I can’t stop the drugs because maybe if I stop the drugs, it may even be worse than that.’ They will actually reprimand patients who say, ‘well look I really want to wean off my drugs and take magnesium.’ They’ll say ‘No. What happens with heart disease is you’ll never get better.’ And I see that even in my continuing medical education courses that I take. Doctors will educate their student doctors that, atrial fibrillation is untreatable, and there’s no cure. And cardio vascular disease, we really have no cure for that either. And that is absolute nonsense because every day I get emails from people saying, well yeah I took your advice, or I read your book, or I looked up your free eBook about magnesium…
Tony Wrighton: Hmm-hmm…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: …I try every way to educate people. And they say, once I got my magnesium, my c-salt, and my minerals. My blood pressure which should never be even perfect on the drugs, is still was elevated. My blood pressure improved, and my cholesterol improved, and my blood sugar improved. My atrial fibrillation went away. I mean, I’ve even gotten awards. There’s a UK association for arrhythmia[?]. It’s called the Heart Rhythm Society. It’s a big international foundation and they gave me the arrhythmia alliance outstanding medical contribution to cardiac rhythm management services award in 2012…
Tony Wrighton: Fantastic!
Dr. Carolyn Dean: …because they know, arrhythmia is important. Yes. It’s out there for certain percentage of doctors who really continue to look, and educate themselves. And maybe, doctors who’ve gotten sick themselves and they start on magnesium, that’s the most common way that doctors get into natural medicine.
Tony Wrighton: I’m glad that we’ve been recognizing you here in the UK.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Thank you Tony! Much appreciated.
Tony Wrighton: Yeah. Yeah. It’s not a bad English accent either. Anyway, from my personal point of view, when I do supplement with magnesium or rather if I forget. I noticed the difference in my energy levels and the neurologic symptoms as well. I’m just thinking for people listening to this, because you know we’re very interested in energy and to live life with more energy. For people listening to this who work out a lot, perhaps, they’re training for a marathon or they go to the gym every day. Is magnesium supplementation important for them?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Oh absolutely! And yes, we should focus on that a bit because what happens in athletics – you sweat. And what do you sweat out? You sweat out your minerals. I have stories, I mean, it’s like an athletic example but the military in the Middle East. The troops will say that after their 10-mile runs, they hang up their t-shirts and they go hard with all the minerals in them. They’re like boards. They have to pound them out before they can wash them. So, they’re sweating all their minerals and what do they replace with? Electrolytes, sodium, and sugars. Over here, I don’t know if you know the name, but Lebron James, on the first basketball game of the NBA finals. He was taken off the field with severe muscle cramps and I immediately wrote an article and said, ‘Lebron James has magnesium deficiency.
Tony Wrighton: Hahaha
Dr. Carolyn Dean: And when I… it was posted in a lot of places. I don’t think Lebron got a hold of it. And when I looked at what they were doing for Lebron James. These multi-million dollar sports clinics, these high priced doctors who worked with athletes, they were giving him 6 and a 20 ounce bottles of Gatorade a day. That much Gatorade, has, I think I said about 60 teaspoons of…
Tony Wrighton: Of sugar… yeah…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: ...sugar that he was taking. And seriously, in your body at any one time you only have 2 teaspoons of sugar. So what in 60 teaspoons is going to do to you? It’s kind of sending your whole body into a panic. It’s going to shut down your cells because you can’t keep forcing sugar into your cells. Because that will just blow them apart. So that’s your beginning of your insulin resistance. That’s what insulin resistance is. Your cells will shut down because they can’t keep taking in all that sugar and you get diabetes. So, all these athletes are subject to diabetes. All these crazy amount of sugar and sodium in their drinks, without any magnesium, without any zinc. It’s just incredible how doctors, because they never learn about minerals in medical school, they just continue to ignore them and we’re suffering the effects. I mean, how many misdiagnosis are there? Like you said for people living with asthma. Asthma can be the smooth muscles in the bronchial tract seizing up and going into spasm. A lot of athletes are taking inhalers because they get asthma symptoms. They start wheezing at a certain point. They need magnesium. Atrial fibrillation. There is an epidemic of atrial fibrillation.
Tony Wrighton: What’s that?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: ...and I’m su-… atrial fibrillation?
Tony Wrighton: Yeah. Explain that in layman’s terms. What atrial fibrillation is?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It’s a type of heart rhythm disturbance. In the heart, there’s the atria and there’s the ventricles. Atrial fibrillation will be when an area in the atrium goes into spasm because of magnesium deficiency. That spasm is around the natural pacemakers of the heart.
Tony Wrighton: Okay.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: So when the natural pacemakers of the heart go into spasm then they can’t pace properly.
Tony Wrighton: That doesn’t sound very nice.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: No. and it freaks people out. Major freaking out with that type of symptom. Especially when your doctor says, ‘Oh well that type of fibrillation, you know there’s one in a million chance where you can get a blood clot.’ So you have to take blood thinners and drugs that may help slow down the heart rate but it does not treat atrial fibrillation. And the magnesium when that’s taken, it will turn around the atrial fibrillation. I’ve had it happen, I mean probably, hundreds of times now.
Tony Wrighton: Wow! I mean, just… the sceptics listening to this will say… with the stories like the Lebron James story. They’ll say, well you know… ‘Why aren’t more people saying this?’, ‘Why haven’t we heard more about magnesium?’, and ‘if this was so important to me living my life with more energy, why haven’t I heard it elsewhere already?’
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Okay. Let’s just state it 1, 2, and 3. (1) Doctors never learned about magnesium or minerals in medical school. And we were told, if you don’t learn about it in medical school, it doesn’t exist. (2) There’s no good blood test out there to show you that you are deficient. (3) Drug companies do not patently test magnesium and ignore it. And just test and promote drugs, that’s it.
Tony Wrighton: Yeah. Amazing. Okay, well let’s move on to - how we can boost our levels then. Because I’m sure a lot of people will think, ‘Oh I think I’ve got some magnesium pills that I bought a few years ago in the bathroom cupboard.’ But, different types of magnesium, as I know, for having read your book and having tried different ones. Different types of magnesium have different effects and actually some don’t have a very nice effect on the stomach, do they?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Right then. You see that’s actually the good point or the good aspect of magnesium, is that if you take too much, even if you take it all once and it’s too much for the body then you’ll get a laxative effect from it. And that’s good. Calcium does not cause a laxative effect when you take too much, it just hangs on to it and causes constipation, and precipitation in all kinds of terrible places in the body. So, magnesium has that failsafe and actually Tony, you’ll be interested to know where that comes from. It’s evolutionary. Humans grew up along the oceans, because they could be… have access to fish and sea products that were easy to catch and eat. Sea water has 3x the magnesium as it does calcium. So everything from the sea is rich in magnesium, if not calcium, except the bones of fish.
Tony Wrighton: Hmmm…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: So, in evolution, in order to not get too much magnesium – we have the laxative effect. In evolution, in order to hold on to enough calcium for our bones and teeth. We have vitamin D.
Tony Wrighton: Yeah.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Vitamin D will help you absorb calcium. And the craziness of our world now, is that the body will take care of your calcium. You don’t need the 1500 milligrams that we talked about in the US. The UK is much more sensible again. The RDA over…
Tony Wrighton: Again?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Again. Hehehe. The RDA in the UK is about 600-700 milligrams of calcium. WHO the same, 500-600 milligrams. So, I take that as my standard and we need equal amounts of magnesium and calcium. Calcium, you could for the most part get, if you have dairy in your diet. And if you’re allergic to the lactose in dairy, then use fermented dairy. Also, fish in bones, nuts and seeds, those green leafy vegetables. They have much more calcium than magnesium. So… you… and can make bone broth as well.
Tony Wrighton: I’ve heard a lot about bone broth.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Yeah. Any fish, beef or lamb bones, beef bones, all those bones. You boil them off after you take the meat off and eat them up. And with 2-3 tablespoons of apple cider or vinegar, and you pull calcium out of the bones. And you use that as a broth in making your soups and stews.
Tony Wrighton: Hmmm… and then, so in terms of supplementing with magnesium. What’s the best way to do it? I tend… I actually tend to use mostly, the foot baths and the sprays. And I also, I’ve ordered some of your re-mag because after being a magnesium specialist for 30 years, you decided to bring out your own magnesium which was better absorbed, didn’t you?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Right. And it’s also a personal necessity actually Tony cause what we should mention is the types of magnesium, such as; magnesium oxide, can cause a lot of laxative effect. That’s because it’s only 4% absorbed. So, what happened in my world is that I would get the laxative effect with a few milligrams of any other magnesium. So yes, I was limited to magnesium baths and foot baths, and spraying magnesium on to the point I was getting rashes on my skin. So, in self-defence I had to find a magnesium that was broken down to a size that could be well absorbed through the cells in the body. Plant magnesium is good to take because the plants only absorb what I call Pico meter sized magnesium amount. It’s like a billionth of a meter. And the cells, the cell mineral ion channels are only a hundred Pico meters in diameter so it’s a perfect size for the passive absorption of magnesium into the cells. You don’t need anything to force it into the cells. So yes, you can have someone Tony, whose constipated and they can take magnesium oxide. And you know, some of my re-mag or take epsontholpahm[?] or the spray on their skin. And they can start getting saturated. Magnesium citrate in powder form, you can put that in a drink. And the solution to the laxative effect there is to stir up the powder in a litre of water and sip it through the day. In that way, you’re getting a small amount in graduated doses so you don’t overload the system. The same with my re-mag, it’s a liquid, you put it in a litre of water and you sip it through the day. And you put your c-salt in the water as well, have a real light electrolyte formula, you put that in water and you sip this through the day and it’s quite an incredible look can happen for people. I tell people you don’t have to limit yourself to one type of magnesium. All magnesium are absorbed to a certain extend. I mean seriously, the magnesium research is mostly on magnesium oxide and all those studies are very positive. I can only imagine, you know, when I get the funds to do the re-mag research and show what can happen with a 100% absorption of magnesium. We could be treating hundreds of conditions properly, therapeutically, with the right type of magnesium instruction.
Tony Wrighton: Yeah that’s really… that’s really exciting isn’t it? And it costs me when you say sipping magnesium through the day. One of the things we haven’t really spoken about that much is sleep.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Hmmm…
Tony Wrighton: But would magnesium help with sleep? It’s what I can’t remember reading about it in the book. But is that one thing that could help with magnesium?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Absolutely! Insomnia, I mean, let me see do I have a chapter on insomnia? That’s a real mistake if I don’t. Because one of the main conditions that we talked about treating is insomnia. Well, what we say is, if you have insomnia and you’re taking magnesium and you still don’t think you’re sleeping properly then take more magnesium. It’s that simple. You really have to take enough magnesium…
Tony Wrighton: You can’t… you can’t take too much. If you do, you’ll just get a bad belly, is that what you’re saying? I mean, I’ve done foot baths for an hour and a half at a time and it’s been fine. But uhmm…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Yeah. Yeah.
Tony Wrighton: Yeah.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Well yes it… there’s so much education that goes into this. You know, with insomnia, I… some people say well I’ll take it all at night and it helps. Some people will say I’ll sip it through the day and it helps my insomnia. I tell people if you’re still having insomnia and you’re on magnesium – sip it through the day and take another dose at night. You really have to be very individual about it. I’m you know, 107 lbs. and I need like 1200mg of my re-mag for my symptoms. Someone else may need less. And you know the RDA over here is about 350. So, if I just limited myself to the RDA, I would still have symptoms. And what I also have to educate people about is when magnesium makes me worse. That’s a section in my books. And I have a blog on… people can just blog… Google for the blog – when magnesium makes me worse. And, magnesium because it’s affecting 600-800 different enzyme systems, and if you’ve been deficient for years. Most people will say, the young 30 year olds that I talk to, they’ll say ‘Oh my gosh… my mother was magnesium deficient.’
Tony Wrighton: Hmmm…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: So, they were probably born with it. And they developed their insomnia and depression and get on meds. And, you know, long before heart symptoms and you know, they’ll just simply have to get their magnesium stores elevated. That’s where I focus on, the magnesium RBC blood test to give them an indication of what they need. But, what will happen in every 30 year old will tell me this is, I heard about magnesium, I read your book. I started taking it. I felt so great within the 1st week. After about a week, I started getting diarrhea so I stopped it entirely. Within a couple of days, I felt even worse. So, what have they done? They’ve taken the magnesium probably just dosing it once or twice a day. It started revving up their enzyme systems, they felt better. Then, they got overloaded by not sipping it through the day or taking it slowly…
Tony Wrighton: Hmm-hmmm…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: …and they got the diarrhea and freaked them out so they stopped it entirely. And all their symptoms came back even worse because they have revved up all those enzyme systems. The body wanted more. All these parts of the body that has been deficient wanted more. And having illuminated it, they caused this incredible withdrawal. So, I you know… when magnesium makes me worse, I try to explain that so that people will just sort of take it very slowly. Especially with the re-mag. Tony you should watch this too. When you start the re-mag, just start slowly at a quarter teaspoon…
Tony Wrighton: Hmm-hmm…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: …and work up to the therapeutic, 2-3 teaspoons. Because, when you get your magnesium properly inside yourself. It’s going to kick out the excess calcium. It’s going to kick out heavy metals and toxins. And when it does that, some people will feel a bit of a detox. So, you do a quarter teaspoon for a couple of days and then increase by a quarter of teaspoon every couple of days until you get up to your 2-3 teaspoons. And you’re doing it right from the beginning in a litre of water and sipping it through the day and I should say too… when people start on my re-mag and reel in c-salt, they say, ‘oh you know I kind of feel like dehydrated,’ or ‘I’m getting constipated, what’s going on? I thought magnesium was good for constipation.’ Well, you’re not drinking enough water because the way minerals work in the body, they want to get into the cell and get to work on thousands and thousands of enzyme processes. And, they pull water in behind them to work the processes. If you look at these biochemical reactions, they all need h2o, which is water. And so, you’ll be using up water and people will tell me when they start taking their minerals, they have less fluid retention. Less ankle oedema. They will feel thirsty as well. So, you want to drink more and take more water. Because if you got oedema, the first thing a doctor says when you have blood pressure, take a diuretic. You’ve got too much water. And people think, ‘oh I should stop drinking water.’ You need half your body weight measured in lbs. Sorry I don’t have it in…. in…
Tony Wrighton: In stones… in there... don’t worry… yeah…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: …yeah… half your weight measured in lbs. and take that in ounces of water. So, for someone whose 200lbs, you want 100oz of water. It sounds very dramatic. But what you have to do is, pace yourself with your water. With your c-salt and minerals. Salt amount, I recommend, start with a pinch if you think salt is yucky.
Tony Wrighton: Yeah.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Your body will get used to it. Your body will love it and miss it if you just take plain water. You work up from a pinch to a quarter of a teaspoon per litre of water. So, if you’re drinking 3 or 4 litres a day. You’re only getting a teaspoon of c-salt which is the RDA for sodium.
Tony Wrighton: Hmm-hmmm…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: This craziness about sodium is going to cause hypertension rescuing. Well, that’s been… tackling about sodium chloride which is the table salt which is actually like a drug. When you talk about c-salt, yes it has sodium but it has 72 minerals. All of which, the body probably needs and we haven’t even studied them. We’ve heard stories of animals who travel for miles to get to a salt lake…
Tony Wrighton: Oh really?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: …to get the salt that they require.
Tony Wrighton: And Himalayan salt, is that good as well?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Actually, they say that I should put it in my blog more but I keep messing up the spelling of it.
Tony Wrighton: Hahahaha. I’m sure you don’t. Over here, it was very hard to get re-mag, over here. But I think it’s easier now. I bought on amazon. Every mag I bought. Ionic magnesium by good state, have you heard of that one?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Yes I have. And I don’t like to put down any magnesium cause I think any magnesium is good. But I have a concern about good state because it has foldic acid in it.
Tony Wrighton: Ahh. Okay.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: And the folic acid, we don’t know enough about it. They don’t, you know, they really don’t test all the batches. It’s supposed to be minerals from dirt. It’s supposed to be dirt itself and they say it forces minerals into the cells. Well, I try everything so… when I tried folic acid it gave me a real headrush.
Tony Wrighton: Hmmm…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: So that I was concerned, because, when something is already 100% absorbed. You don’t want to drive it into the cells. You don’t know what that type of force does. So, I do stay away from the folic acid. It seems to be concentrated. It’s 2/3 less than re-mag but it’s more because of the folic acid and I don’t recommend it.
Tony Wrighton: Hmm... okay… uhmmm doctor…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: And what we’ve done Tony…
Tony Wrighton: Yeah.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: With the re-mag distribution is on the east coast now. So, it’s getting to the UK a lot faster.
Tony Wrighton: Yeah. Great. No, I know I’ve ordered some. So am looking forward to getting it. You and I are both converts obviously. You are pretty much the most high profile converts in the world to magnesium. You are the foremost authority on it. But there will be people listening to this saying, ‘Why haven’t we heard more about magnesium’ You mentioned that the doctors don’t prescribe it. Is that because the big medical companies have a kind of vested interest to ensure that we’ll spend our money on drugs that cost a lot of money rather than magnesium which is freely available for everybody?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Yes. There’s some of that for sure. We don’t have magnesium drug reps going into doctors. We just have drug reps. The media is not paid millions of dollars to put on magnesium advertising but I think it probably started a little more in a clinical aspect on how magnesium is tested. Magnesium as I’ve written is in the serum and when you take a blood test, you take a serum of magnesium. Well, only 1% of the total body magnesium is in serum. So, you’re never getting any accuracy of what’s in the cells…
Tony Wrighton: So, what you’re saying… is if we take a magnesium test. A standard magnesium test. It’s not really going to show up whether were deficient in magnesium or not.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Exactly. And what that serum magnesium is important for is for fusing the heart with sufficient magnesium to keep it beating rhythmically. And the highest amount of magnesium in the whole body is in the heart. So, the biofeedback mechanism that’s in the bloodstream are such that, if the serum magnesium goes down even a little bit, then body will force magnesium out of the bones and muscles into the bloodstream to keep the heart beating properly. So, you’re only going to find low serum magnesium when the heart is already erratic and maybe having angina and on the edge of a heart attack.
Tony Wrighton: Right. Yeah.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: So, it’s really a very inappropriate measure and the doctors know that. The researchers know that. And we talked a lot about that at this think tank 2 weekends ago and all they can figure out to do is was maybe we’ll stretch the range of serum magnesium. For example, I mean, it doesn’t matter what the form of this test is but the range is like 1.5-2.5. A tiny little 1 gradient measurement and they’re saying well maybe we should put it from 1-3…
Tony Wrighton: Yeah.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: …instead of 1.5-2.5. Maybe we’ll get more people. But that’s not even, that’s 1% of the total body magnesium. Why even bother with it? But the bureaucracy of testing and what’s in the literature are all focused on serum magnesium. And I just got out of that a couple of years ago. Because I have been promoting ionized magnesium test which will tell you what the ions of magnesium that are in the cells will give you a much better measure…
Tony Wrighton: Hmmm…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: …as a research tool. But, you know, there are ways of measuring and we should be doing it. We can’t get that. Out of the 5,000 labs in the United States, only 150 do the tests and that’s university based. So, I have been promoting as you have read in the book probably, the magnesium RBC test. RBC stands for red blood cells.
Tony Wrighton: Yeah.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Supposedly that 40% of the magnesium is in the red blood cells. It’s not a muscle test or a bone test where most of the magnesium is. But it’s much better than the serum magnesium. So, I’m telling people to get that test in America. We can get it online, we don’t need a doctor’s script. So, I’m promoting that test but I have to do another whole educational input to people and say, ‘now remember, the range of magnesium RBC test is 4.2-6.8, but 80% of the population is deficient so you want to be up on the top percentile. You want to be on the 6 to 6.5.’ Supposedly the upper one that is 6.8. Now, the 4.2 to 6.8 that was the range I learned a couple of years ago. Recently, people have been saying, ‘oh well the range of my blood lab is 3.8 to 6.’ So, every year the range goes down lower and lower as the sick population is measured. And that alone should tell doctors, ‘oh my gosh, everybody’s getting lower and lower on their magnesium level.’
Tony Wrighton: So what’s happening? Are we not eating enough fruit and vegetables, and food with magnesium anymore? Or is our diet different? Or what it used to be like? Why are we actually taking in less magnesium?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Yes. Great question. That’s another thing that’s overlooked. A hundred years ago, we can get 500mg of magnesium from an ordinary good diet. At these days, we’re lucky to get 200mg.
Tony Wrighton: Hmmm…
Dr. Carolyn Dean: So the magnesium has been firmed out of the soil. The water that’s put on the crops now is not mineral rich. Rain water does not have minerals. It depends on the flooding of the plains; of the water comes down in the spring time from the mountains and scraping all the way down and bringing minerals in into the flood plains. But people, put hazards on flood plains now. That’s not where they farm. So, it’s very low on the soil. Even if you eat organic. Well, do you know if your organic farmer that puts minerals back in the soil? And, I had the most traumatic example. Recently, when a couple of people who are on this crazy 140oz of green drink a day and they come to me with heart palpitations and leg cramps. And they say, ‘I can’t be magnesium deficient but I have heart palpitations and leg cramps.’ I put them on a well absorbed magnesium and their symptoms go away. And they can’t believe that they did the blood test that they were low on magnesium. Because even though they were eating green and organic, if the soil doesn’t have magnesium, then it’s not going to be in their food.
Tony Wrighton: And you mentioned those leg cramps. A lot of people get them at night don’t they? It’s either cramps or you kind of leg slightly twitches and that, I know from reading your book is a major cause lack of magnesium.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Exactly. We call them Charlie Horsham. And I was really stricken with those. I’d stretch in bed at night and my calf muscles will go into this fantastic spasm. And that is definitely symptom of magnesium deficiency. So, what you say the breast[?] loose leg, the twitching, that can be magnesium deficiency.
Tony Wrighton: Yeah.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: And there can be other things. I know, I do focus on magnesium a lot but as you read on my book I’ll tell people. Look, put c-salt in your water. Get the other mineral. Take a good multiple. If you’re potassium deficient, make potassium broth. Make sure you’re getting enough calcium and try not to take it in a pill form. Because, too much calcium will kind of bump out your magnesium. The more calcium you have, the more magnesium you need. And as you know, in western medicine, they’ve been promoting so much calcium for osteoporosis especially in women. And we’ve ended up now with a half a dozen studies that show, that women who take calcium supplements are at a higher risk for heart disease, gall stones, kidney stones, and breast tissue calcification…
Tony Wrighton: Wow.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: …because it’s not made soluble with magnesium. That’s what magnesium does. If you take powdered magnesium and mix it with powdered calcium, the calcium will dissolve. If there’s no magnesium around, the calcium just precipitates.
Tony Wrighton: Doctor Carolyn, thank you so much for coming on. It’s very important work that you’re doing and I can tell the passion you’ve got. The final question I want to ask you is, the one book you’d recommend and the one change you’d recommend that we could do to live our lives with more energy?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Hahaha. Well that’s magnesium miracle and take in magnesium.
Tony Wrighton: I thought you might say that.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: That was a trick question. But you know Tony, what we haven’t looked at is the drugs that have fluoride molecules in them. And my concern, that the fluoride in drugs is fighting out magnesium that’s why we’re getting so many magnesium deficiency side effects when people are on medication. So, I would just say to people that they can find a list of those drugs in my… the re-mag, there’s a lot of light read like, re-mag website which rnareset.com under the FAQs. There’s 3 books there. Because it is very important to know the fluoride aspects of magnesium deficiency.
Tony Wrighton: Okay. That’s great. So, your personal website is DrCarolynDean.com and what was the re-mag website?
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Re-mag website is rnareset.com.
Tony Wrighton: Fantastic! Thank you so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. And I think I can hear a kind of seagulls or birds tweeting on the background which I’m quite jealous about.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Oh I know… I just want to say one point. The magpies are all over the place right now. Yes. It’s… I don’t know if we seagulls here. They don’t make much of a journey over this way.
Tony Wrighton: No. Maybe that’s more in English don’t you think? Dr. Carolyn thank you so much for coming on. I really do appreciate it. Hope to speak to you again at some point soon.
Dr. Carolyn Dean: Oh anytime Tony! Great interview. I appreciate you and you getting the information out there about health is very important.
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